Using Intergroup Dialogue as a Catalyst for Social Justice with Kelly Maxwell

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“I just want people to know that others (white folks in particular) to think about what it means to have both marginalized and privileged identities. The complexity of it. What it’s like for me to navigate that. Actions: be reflexive. Don’t take identities for granted, but interrogate their meaning for oneself. Also, think about social justice action/activism. What does it mean for you to engage in social justice. What do you want the outcome to be?”

–Kelly Maxwell

Kelly Maxwell reflects on how coming out as a lesbian in the 1990s sparked a deeper examination of her whiteness and a lifelong commitment to understanding her relationship to privilege and oppression. She traces her journey from growing up in an almost exclusively white small town in Ohio to dedicating 17 years to social justice education through intergroup dialogue at The Program on Intergroup Relations at the University of Michigan.

Kelly also shares stories from her family life as part of a multiracial, interracial, two-mom household, and how those dynamics shape her personal and professional values on justice. She speaks candidly about the tensions of institutional “neutrality,” and how she works to align her values with her responsibilities on campus and in her role as Board Chair of the Difficult Dialogues National Resource Center, a nonprofit that supports colleges and universities in using dialogic practice to create transformational change in the pursuit of equity and justice.

Meet Kelly

I am senior assistant dean for undergraduate education and engagement in the College of Literature, Science, and the Arts. In that role, I work with 9 units that are engaging students in high-impact practices to produce a dynamic undergraduate experience. Examples include Michigan Learning Communities, undergraduate research, and intergroup dialogues.

I am also the DEI lead for our division and the founder of a new initiative called Departmental Action Teams for Equitable Teaching, which seeks to catalyze institutional change at the academic departmental level around equitable outcomes. I spent 17 years with the Program on Intergroup Relations. There, I trained hundreds of undergraduates as dialogue facilitators, co-created the minor in intergroup relations education, and worked on a large multi-university research project.

Today, my passion still lies in dialogue work. I am the board chair of the Difficult Dialogues National Resource Center, a non-profit that works with colleges and universities on the teaching and learning of dialogic practice to create transformational change to address the persistent challenges to justice and equity.

More from Kelly

Pivotal Moments of Reflection

“Coming out as lesbian and the ‘ah ha’ that it gave me about my whiteness. It led me to a sense of gratitude for my experiences, letting go of guilt around whiteness, sensing a new responsibility as a teacher and learning, commitment toward a purposeful life–since whiteness is so ubiquitous in our society, I could have chosen to ignore the social justice issues around racial inequality. Instead, I leaned in to make sure I was living the principles I’d adopted for my own life around equity, inclusion, and transformation.

Further tested when my struggling son was in 6th grade. As a Black kid, he was profiled and labeled as bad. This kid who was struggling with so much anxiety that he couldn’t attend school was mislabeled. His anger and defiance was a cry for help and was met with stereotyping of a young Black boy. There was an institutional component about this, too, as other Black boys were labeled and called to the office over the school’s loudspeaker for discipline. So I had to act on his behalf but also to stop the bias against others. This experience just made me drill down to understand that I have a great amount of privilege and I can use it to make change in the places where I have access. This led (not directly but circuitously) to my current role as senior assistant dean.

I worked with hundreds of students over my time as a faculty member (and co-director) in IGR. I loved that work and knew that we were making institutional change by teaching students the skills to have dialogue across different identities. I’ve had many students come back and tell me how they are still using these skills in their lives as educators, non-profit leaders, organizers, and also as power brokers, lawyers, doctors, etc. But I wanted to influence policy change here at U-M. This role has helped me to do that.”

On How Her Experiences Influenced Her Current Work

“I really love working in small groups to help others build dialogue skills that they will take with them. These educational interactions have been the primary source of my social justice activism (in terms of my job). Today, I do a lot more at the institutional level. I control budgets (or access to request them), I can put together working groups, I am in the room when decisions are made about investing in (or not) DEI initiatives so I can make the case. I try to use this type of access to further social justice causes.

Often this is called investing in student success. To me, it’s the equitable outcomes that are most important so I don’t mind how we talk about it. I do think that’s changed over time. There’s more nuance in how I think and talk about social justice issues. I see a developmental trajectory among students who are strident about their causes. Over time, those students, like me, have been in the world for awhile and seek the same outcomes with different approaches.”

Reflections on Internalized Oppression

“As a lesbian and in an interracial relationship, I know that internalized oppression kept me from outwardly showing my affection for my wife in public spaces (in the same kinds of appropriate ways heterosexual couples do). I was afraid of the side-eyes or worse–violence that we could face. So I think it held me back. Also, being the “right kind” of lesbian–not too butchy or easily recognizable. This was years and years ago. Now I am who I am.

This is all intertwined with another marginalized identity–being a woman, so I don’t really disentangle those. Now I just am who I am. I do sometimes forget that I should come out when I meet new people, especially students for whom I could be a role model. I think I should be more intentional around who I am, but I don’t especially think it’s due to continued internalized oppression–rather, a comfort with being myself, similar to others with privileged identities who don’t have to think about it.”

Reflections on Privilege and Internalized Superiority

“My most privileged identities are being white and upper middle class/now upper class (both in background and currently). I don’t have to worry about money at all, and even growing up, that wasn’t true. I’ve become more and more comfortable, which means I need to give more (philanthropically) and recognize my privilege in these areas.

I fully admit to using my white privilege to benefit my interracial family, particularly my son who has faced discrimination and racism. My calling it out means something different than when my wife does it. I don’t know how to think about it. I’ve heard others say that it’s never okay to use privilege even when it benefits the cause of attacking an -ism. I do wonder whether it only perpetuates racism to have me do this, but my wife and I actively discuss who is the better person in a given situation to speak up.

Around social class, I had the good fortune to learn a lot about investing, saving, etc., from my family. And we had the means to do both. I have, on occasion and when it’s welcome, acted as a financial educator for friends who never learned about budgeting or other financial matters. It’s a small, interpersonal way to give back. I don’t think I’ve fully unpacked internalized superiority around my social class. When a stereotype about a low-income person comes up, I actively challenge it–either in my own schema or with others.”

Name Drops, References, and Resources from Kelly

“Oh my–so many people, especially at U-M: Patricia Gurin, Rob Sellers, Mark Chesler, Al Young, Tabbye Chavous, Roger Fisher, Monita Thompson, to name a few. Additionally, Dr. Jesús Treviño.

I am also shaped by my board colleagues on the Difficult Dialogues National Resource Center. We come from really different institutional types. Whenever I think I have it figured out in the Michigan context, they remind me that there are so many ways to do this work differently depending on the context. It keeps me on my toes.

Books: Dialogue Across Differences”

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Social Justice Origin Stories is produced, edited, and hosted by Relando Thompkins-Jones